Changing county fox laws

[otterrookie]

David,

How does one go about getting there county fox laws changed? Are these local laws that the county commissoners can change or does it have to go thru the state legislation?

Thanks

otterrookie

[Bottomline]

I would like to know this as well. I'm all for, and will support any changes we can get made to our wonderful fox laws.

[David Underwood]

When we did it in Anson Co, the county commissioners
aproved it and asked NCWRC to grant a county season.
I don't know if it still works that way. I'll find out.

[beaverstop]

To answer your question, it involves both the county and the Legislature. You, as a county resident. can request a change or the implementation of a fox season. If the commissioners pass a law, it then goes to the Legislature to be enacted. I think that the proper term is "enabling legislation." The most important and difficult job is to get your commissioners to pass the local law. You can expect strong opposition from the fox hound lobby, both at the local and state level. However, Person County extended the season and Pitt County passed a season within the past year, although Pitt County did not pass the length season originally requested. If I am in error anywhere on this, someone please jump in. Hope this helps.

Jimmy

[David Underwood]

Our commissioners were very favorable in Anson.
The chair of Union's commission is a friend of mine,
but his political nads aint big enough. It would
politically unpopular in Union county. He won't
take the chance.
Jimmy, your explanation is better than mine.
County commissioners must give their blessing or
the state can not do anything.

[otterrookie]

Thanks everyone for your replies, I guess it's time for me to talk to my county commissoners. I'm in Bladen county and would like to see our fox trapping season extended or start earlier. Hopefully it will not meet any opposition from the fox hunters, most of them run in pens now anyway.

Thanks again

otterrookie

[jarheaded]

What about changing the STATE LAW instead of nibbling away county by county? We've discussed chaning the local laws a thousand times on T'man, but I've never heard anything about going for the bigger picture. Is it the fox hound lobby?

[beaverstop]

Yes. It is my understanding that the fox hunters had the fox declared a game animal and made illegal to trap around 1979. Check the top of page 29 of the Regulations Digest and you will see that the fox is not listed as one of the animals that are legal to trap. At that time, trappers, and especially officers of the NCTA, received threats of personal harm and suffered vandalism to their property. Things have mellowed some and the local laws have slowly brought about some changes. Wildlife cannot change the regulation. It requires action by the Legislature. The fox hunter lobby is still so politicaly strong that I will bet you my last 330 BMI that Wildlife cannot be persuaded to approach the General Assembly with a fox trapping season. The politicians do not want to have to answer to the fox hunters, especially The Southeastern Fox Hunters Association. If the turnout that we had at the recent round of public hearing to try to have raccoon trapping regulations put on the agenda for change is any indicator, we would not stand a chance in any test of numbers with the fox hunters.

[nccowboy]

Hhow do you go about asking the commisioners to change the rules? Im not real good woth words or talkingin front of a bunch of folks i dont really know. I im no politition, thats for sure. Does or wilol this assocation help any at this level?

What im getting at is I live here in Cumberland county, we DO have a fox trapping season here BUT We can only use leg hold traps on our own property. I want to get it ammended to at least to be able to use leg hold traps on anothers property with land owners permission.
I mean whats the difference? If the land owner can, why cant he grant permission to use em if he gives you permission to trap his property? This sis what I need help on as well as a few others im sure here in Cumberland county.

It would almost be the same as on one perperty I hunt coyotes on, I can only use a shot gun on his property. He should be able to say Ican trap on his property with leg holds as well.

Thanks

[beaverstop]

Ted Gardner, who runs cattle in both Harnett and Cumberland Counties, is working on this now. He has been attempting to control coyotes since he began to lose calves a couple of years ago. He made a proposal to the Commissioners regarding the trapping laws in Harnett County that brought about changes. He and I collaborated on the proposal, but he presented it. Politicians only listen to those who vote in their elections.

What you can do as an individual, is to attend the monthly commissioners meeting and just observe. You will get a feeling for how the system works and what is required to get on the agenda. It is best to provide a one page proposal with supporting facts/research attached. They are not often willing to read more than one page. If you are unconfortable addressing them, find an ally. But, remember that they will only pay attention to voters as that affects their political life. The NCTA will assist you with putting it together, but you will have to cary the ball.

PM me either here or over on T-Man and I will give you my phone #. I can ask Ted if he would be willing to work with you on this. Also, be prepared to face opposition from the coon hunters. It is my understanding that they had this local law enacted.

Jimmy

[nccowboy]

Are the coon hunters really have that much pull still? It used to be fairly popular around my part of the county but has really fallen off. I dont know anyone that coon hunts around here anymore.

[jarheaded]

I'm gonna throw some ideas out there because this really intruiges me.

Is there really that much fair chase fox hunting in the state? There isn't in this county. There IS however a lot of running pens.

I have no doubt in my mind that the local pens are supported by illegal fox trapping. Legalizing would be a good thing for the fox pens here.....supply and demand would drive live market prices down.

What about the rest of the state?

I honestly don't know....so I'll ask...

Has the association made any persuit of the fox regs at a state level in recent years?

Does the association have any sort of relationship with the fox hunters? If not, is there anything we could do to help establish one?

I know that in other states, many houndsmen are members of the state trapping associations in order to circumvent fur auction commissions...has the NCTA ever considered a fur auction?

How about other potential allies? National Wild Turkey Federation....pheasants forever....quail unlimited...etc. Any other sportsmen rights organizations that might have interest in the issue?

Anyone with any knowledge on the subject....please feel free to enlighten me!

Thanks!

Ed

[jarheaded]

At the very least I'm starting to learn some things....

I talked to another friend today who traps Pender, Duplin, Sampson, and has been doing so for several years....he knows a few folks involved in the fox/ coyote hunts...

He says the existence of the running pens are proof that there are fox hunters active in the area, and that pens, even the 100 acre and up ones are only used for training pups....the real hunts (competetive) are all fair chase....and you can't get PAID if you don't run a fox.

While he has absolutely no hope whatsover of seeing the fox laws changed, he did point out another potential ally....on the land he's trapping, many of the property owners run deer dogs. They have problems with their hounds running fox.....especially the reds.....

I guess it's just hard for me to imagine someone being so greedy....especially when they kill them and leave 'em lay.

I hunt deer on foot. I'm not jealous of the people who hunt with dogs from the back of their pickups. I could care less really....

[David Underwood]

Well they are that greedy, I guess.
25 years ago it wasn't easy to drive
thru my neighborhood at night because
of fox dogs in the road. I haven't seen
a fox dog out in a year or 2, but they
are still playing politics. Not real sure
when this all started. It was before '75.
Fox were already untouchable by then.
It got real contentious in Union county
back then. At least one trapper beaten
in the woods. Pickup trucks vandalized.
Dogs poisoned. A game warden's house
shot up real bad. Some real rough stuff.
We had a public hearing at Wadesboro in
the court house. Dog men and trappers came
in groups because individuals were not safe.
The court room had an over flow crowd.
The whole affair was loud and disorderly.
I was at all those meetings. What a mess.

[jarheaded]

David,

Thanks. I appreciate you putting your experience out there for myself and others to read.

That is crazy...truly unbelieveable. I don't see any fox hunting going on here, but I guess that doesn't mean much. I wouldn't doubt if they (fox hunters) are suspected to the same criticsm from animal rights crowd as trappers are. Especially since it was banned in England. When it comes to that issue, I guess I'd side with the fox hunters though. I don't want any sportsmen to lose their rights.

I still intend to persue the county commissioner route, but I'm not getting my hopes up.


Later,
Daniel